by Giacomo Cardinali
For us in the library, this has also been a communal process in the sense that this exhibition has gradually expanded to include many people, and we have come into contact with so many different worlds and languages. In this regard, I would like to ask you what it has meant for you to encounter the Vatican Library. Yours and ours are usually very different worlds, which rarely communicate with each other. What impressions do you take away from this journey to and with us?
MGC: The first thing was, of course, having the opportunity to visit the spaces and access the documents of such an important library, and to meet people from very different backgrounds with whom, however, we could engage in easy and immediate dialogue. I would say it was an exchange and an enrichment for everyone. Our habit of working in a community was a great advantage in this. We have chosen to work in a community because, for Karishma and me, that is the only meaningful way. So when the opportunity arises to broaden our horizons, to include and collaborate with more people, it becomes truly interesting because it can only lead to enrichment—bringing new knowledge and perspectives.
KS: For me, just being able to come here and access this library, together with Maria Grazia, was an incredible honor! And then, the chance to discover the stories of these six extraordinary women, through whom we started to explore the world and the connections that run through it—from America to Asia, from textiles to the world of craftsmanship, from cultures that may seem so different but that I actually found to be very similar despite being geographically distant. For example, the way fabrics are made in India and Japan. We discovered that the Indian ikat technique, used in Gujarat and Odisha—where we dye the threads before weaving them—is the same technique used in Japan under a different name: kasuri. I am fascinated by this idea of craftsmanship “traveling” across the world, moving through cultures, starting as something local but, through the generosity of sharing, becoming global thanks to cultural exchanges. For me, it is always wonderful to discover these links and realize how, in reality, we are all so similar…
MGC: …and connected! All different, yet all connected! (laughs)
KS: …and then, at a certain point, Maria Grazia told me about her idea of creating a globe—a world map featuring these women! It was an intuition that brought so much joy because the students at the school often do not have passports or many opportunities to travel, but by embroidering the two globes that are now here, they were able to travel immensely. With their creativity and their hands. A journey always begins as an internal world before manifesting externally.
MGC: Once again, it depends on what we mean by “traveling.” People often think that travel is only external, but that is not the case. A journey can be internal, as Karishma rightly says. Through this project, we have had the opportunity to reflect on so many things—so many that it is difficult to summarize. One of them is that everyone has a way to express their own journey. Some can express it through embroidery, some through writing, some through drawing or any other artifact, or through music. Not everyone can express in the same way the process behind their reflections and the transformation that a project like this brings. Our language is not made of words, but of what you can now see displayed in this room.
What you are saying is beautiful, and I think you have managed to express in your own language what words could convey in a different way. For us, it is absolutely clear: a library, where one is enclosed within four walls—especially the Barberini Hall, which has no windows, only a single entrance door—can be the setting for the greatest and most adventurous journeys. The most open, the most thrilling, or even the most dangerous. This can be said with words, and hundreds of writers have said it, but it can also be conveyed by placing at the center of the scene your woven and embroidered globes. And it is exactly the same message: books allow one to escape from the claustrophobia of any human condition.
MGC: A book, in my opinion, is the ultimate vehicle for travel because it doesn’t give you predefined images—so, through reading, through a book, each person can travel and imagine their journey in an extremely personal way. In this sense, it’s a super-exclusive journey because it belongs only to you. I’ve always said that books inspire me more than anything else because reading lets your imagination run free to visualize things as you want, and I believe that’s the most beautiful journey one can take.
KS (laughs): We’ve been studying this thing together for over a year now—we’re having so much fun…
MGC (laughs): I’ve never studied this much in my life!
KS: …in an incredible way! To me, the journey was already the destination in itself because this journey led us to an amazing alignment—which is really precious to me—both with nature and with ourselves, with the processes, and with the community…
MGC: Karishma is right, but what makes us happiest is that we kept letting more people join us on this journey (laughs)! It’s about sharing the journey…
KS: So beautiful! Like a bus stop… (laughs)
MGC: Like a bus stop, except that in the meantime, people were getting on (laughs), more were included, all together on a journey where, along the way, you gradually understood what you wanted to say, what you wanted to do—and that’s the beauty of it. It’s not about where you end up, it’s the whole journey!
KS: We’ve done so many exhibitions together in the past, so many projects…
MGC: But this one was different…
KS (laughs): …but this one was exceptional!
MGC: I agree!
KS: Because we truly went beyond—inside, outside, a bit of chaos, a bit of uncertainty—it was very special, really! (laughs)
MGC (laughs): I agree with Karishma! Completely! Moving forward, going back, one person gets on, another one joins! But that’s the real result! And how much this journey has enriched everyone involved! That’s the outcome: we all feel incredibly happy to have been part of it!
Personally, I’m really moved by these words—libraries, in general, don’t have the reputation of being places where you travel joyfully, in a whirlwind, picking up people along the way. That’s not part of the common narrative, especially regarding the Vatican Library, and yet, for us too, it’s been like that: every now and then, someone hopped onto this increasingly crowded and shaky bus that gathered and transported different worlds. Completely distant worlds, which, however, were able to understand each other beyond everything—geographical origins, types of work, languages, personal sensitivities. In a very natural way, without any forcing from any side.
MGC: I believe that the library itself helped foster this kind of reflection. It’s a space for exchange, for knowledge, and it has sparked curiosity in everyone—a desire to understand more, to discover. This was fundamental for us because, in a way, the place itself generates the project. Beyond what was selected, proposed, and elaborated upon from the Vatican Library’s collection for the exhibition, the space itself creates and encourages reflection. A library is about discovery, a library is about reading, a library is about exchange. And a library is international—so in the end, at least in my view, much of what emerged from the En route project is due to the place itself.
One last question, thinking about those who will visit the exhibition and come face to face with your installation. When visitors enter your room, the Barberini Hall, what will they see?
MGC: I believe that, like all exhibitions and all things, this installation can be understood on different levels. Some people will simply be fascinated by the artifact itself—it may or may not appeal to them—but they will recognize the intrinsic quality of the work. Some will grasp the deeper reflections on these journeys, these maps, the concept of the paper pattern and the garment, but I think that kind of appreciation will come from those who know us as creators and understand our background, which requires a slightly more specific knowledge. Others may simply like or dislike the aesthetic aspect. But what I am sure of is that it is an intervention that is fitting for the space. The globe was a traditional element in libraries. And the fact that these globes were made by Chanakya with the women’s school recalls what happened in the past in some countries—such as in America and the Anglo-Saxon world—and contributes to elevating and highlighting what was considered for centuries as domestic work, presenting it instead as a form of knowledge and self-expression. But what I really hope everyone will recognize is how deeply communal and collective this work is. This is what Karishma and I care about most because it truly represents us.
KS: I completely agree. I hope that people will really feel the synergy…
MGC: Yes, and also… the human touch…
KS: …the synergy, meaning the fact that it doesn’t matter if we are physically in completely different places, even on two different continents, because the idea of collective creation and shared values allows us to always feel united.
MGC: Yes, a shared feeling!
You both insist a lot on this point, but as an outsider, I find it striking to hear you say it, because when people think about fashion, usually only the designer’s name comes to mind—the one I read on the label. It’s not at all obvious that it’s actually a collective effort. It’s quite surprising. Are you the unusual ones, or am I just out of touch?
MGC: What you’re saying is exactly what most people think, and it’s still a very common perception, but it doesn’t reflect our approach at all—Karishma’s and mine, I mean. That’s just not what interests us…
KS: And the power of this choice—it’s incredible! It gives us a different kind of freedom, I think. It truly allows us, through these exchanges, to create something far greater than what, at least for me, I could ever imagine. From my perspective, these are experiences that let you feel the power of community…
MGC: I’m also very convinced that, at its core, it’s always a matter of storytelling. Fashion has traditionally been narrated in a way that aligns it with art, so they had to create the image of the lone creative genius working in isolation in their studio. But to me, that’s just a narrative—albeit one that is still very current—whereas I believe in teamwork, in collective and communal work. I think it’s possible in all fields, including creative ones. And let’s not forget that even in art, things never actually worked that way: there were workshops, and it wasn’t Michelangelo alone painting the ceilings. Even in art, there has always been this myth-making…
Does the fact that you are two women have anything to do with your way of working?
MGC: No, no, I don’t think it’s linked to gender at all. As you’ve seen, our team includes many men as well as women. It’s really just a way of sharing creativity, a way of working on projects—not linked to gender, but to what you feel, to what your creative journey is, to how you want to live it.
How did you come up with the idea of the globes?
MGC (laughs): By studying! Because traveling is about following something—you follow it, follow it, never knowing where it will lead. The funny thing was that you would ask me about the project, and I wouldn’t answer, because when you start a project, you don’t know where it will take you. That is the project. So you go, you turn, you turn, and then in the end, you say, “Okay, we’re here.” When everyone has gotten on and our bus is packed (laughs).
That’s really striking to hear, because it’s exactly the same process as research. No serious researcher can predict where their studies will take them.
MGC: That’s how we worked. You pull, pull, pull, and then everything falls into place. You have to let it go. (Mimes following a thread).
That’s impressive to hear from a different field because it makes you realize that some approaches to life and study are fundamentally similar…
MGC: Exactly!
S: You can’t know in advance.
MGC (laughs): I never know where I’ll end up.
KS: Exactly! It’s impossible without reflection, evolution…
MGC: The project takes shape as you go…